A rough Running Rover... Timing?

Alright I've got a good one for everyone.

1995 RRC, took the rover through a deep Puddle, Got water into the Distributor, Rover was shuddering because of carbon buildup on the Distributor. I replaced the Dis and the Rotor, along with the Timing advance, which I just realized was bad.

The rover was still shuddering and A check engine light came on for the right bank, it was running rich. I figured i fowled a plug or two, which would account for the Richness and the shuddering and the idle being rough. At that time i figured id check the Timing, That's when i noticed the timing was way too advanced So i tried to correct it "8 degrees BTDC". I did that perfectly with a timing light, The idle got worse and it Idled with a sever lack of power and delay.

That night I figured I should check out the Ignition wires, I started her up, and misted some water on the engine, Lo and Behold there were little shorts everywhere Jumping from the wires to the Block and other engine components.

I replaced the Ignition wires with 8mm racing wires, Custom fit them myself, and got NGK performance plugs.

Rover was A BEAST for 20 min of driving, Having So much Power 0 to 560 in 9.5 sec , But At low RPM the idle sucks and a sever lack of low end tork and power. I fowled another plug or two "sounds like it"

Oh and i installed a new Coil so now i have no idea on what the problem could be, other than the Severely advanced timing, But i need the advanced timing in order for the Rover to Idle or even Drive.
I'm going to try and time it again with the new ignition system, hopefully It will clear its self out.

Other symptoms
Back firing both in the intake and exhaust
Shuddering
fowled plugs
Right bank running rich
Surges in power untill about 2000 RPM

Any suggestions would be awesome and greatly appreciated. [b]

sorry just saw this as i have been crazy busy... what dizzy did you put in?

If you get this figured out let us know.
I'm working with a guy on another forum with a DI that has the same problem, he replaced his dizzy, had a lack of power before hand and almost would not run.
New dizzy, set timing and now very similar problem as you.

What cap and rotor did you/they put on?
If it's one of those cheapo ones it could be internally arcing and causing your problem.
Replace them with the factory ones or if you saved the original cap clean it and put it back on
The rotor should have a silicone coated tip. Try this first
A tip: To remove the rotor if it does not feel like it will pull off, break it in half with a chisel.
This will prevent the distributor shaft from pulling out of the timing advance, and save
you the headache of disassembling your distrubutor to fix.

After close examination the Dizz was installed 180 degrees off, the firing order was completely wrong and i have no idea how this rover was even running, After removing the Dizzy and putting it to its correct position and returning the wires to there correct firing order, to the T, and cleaning the throttle body and butterfly valve the rover began to clear up and i began to narrow down the potential problems.


I didn't replace the Dizzy, only the cap. I also replaced the vacuum timing advance, and roter.

From what I can figure, I have to advance my distributor so far almost 2 inched BTDC, when its supposed to be at 8 Degrees BTDC. my reasoning for this is because" I assume" when the previous owner rebuilt the engine, he jumped a tooth on the timing chain, with my previous experiences and extensive research this is the only possible reasonable answer i could find. Another possible cause could be worn cams?


Just some friendly advice, Never put performance plugs in these rovers with out upgrading the Dizzy and the coil, I installed performance plugs and because of the extra power they demanded, my fuel economy dropped dramatically and other engine systems began to act up.

Recap,

with my timing advanced fixed, my new cap and roter, and custom 8mm ignition wires and new 1.5ohm coil, along with the severely advanced Dizzy, the rover runs without any hesitation and with plenty of power "knock on wood" . But i get this strange feeling there's still more power to be harnessed so to speak.

I would go back to basics here. I think there could be more than one problem

Check the fuel injector ground at the back of the l/s cylinder head
There is a stud that attaches to the head these are known to loosen up
you need to actually remove the ground nut, tighten the stud then reattach
both ground wires.
Check engine vacuum to eliminate a clogged cat
drop the exhaust at the downpipes to confirm if needed
Check cylinder compression
Make sure the crank pulley TDC and #1 piston TDC are correct .
Maybe the woodruff key sheered on the crankand the pulley has spun.
You said someone else had this apart...
How deep was the water you went through? did your engine try to breath it??

The right bank rich could just be an ox sensor, loose ground, ecu connections(corrosion),
or a problem with the cat..
It could also be set from the coil connections and coil arcing to itself from the wire

The puddle was deep enpugh to touch the bottom of the front bumper, i also went through the puddle with some force, The air filter did get wet, enough that I could wring water out of it, I immeditl stopped and addressed the problem, swapped the filter with a clean one, and blew air into the MAF just in case. .

After the initial problem of the rover going through the deep puddle, and after getting it out of the woods, I began the slow prosses of trouble shooting.

We comfirmed that the rotar pointed to the 1# cylender on the compression stroke, with the harmonic balancer at TDC pointing to the timing indicator. we did this multiple times just to double check. We don't believe the damper has slipped from the key way because it would not line up.

Prior to me purchasing the rover, the enigne was just rebuilt, less that 8,000 miles on the rebuild. Even with this knowledge i did a compression test on all cylenders, all passed with flying colors and was within the specifications.


Engine has excellent vacuum, the exhaust is Bran new "performance", and is just fine. We did decide to change the spark plugs back to copper core plugs and set the gap at .035

After we changed the plugs the check engine light went off and the power is good but not great. I still don't know what the full potential of this rover could have, I bought the rover with the busted timing advance and incorrect firing order. this being said, i have nothing to compare the rover to.

the timing is still not set to 8deg BTDC, I timed the rover by ear, which would be 2 inches dramatically before TDC. If i returned the timing to 8deg BTDC, the rover would run rough and back fire and have next to no power.

Ill check out the injectors, check there grounds and other electrical components i can find, Ive been cleaning any connections i could find and adding electrical grease to help prevent corrosion.

guess you learned the ultimate rule.

as slow as possible, as fast as necessary.

Things I would check before condemning the engine
Don't get mad at me..make for sure you are checking cylinder 1 timing at cylinder 1 (the drivers side bank)

Although unilkely to bring positive results..
Try diconnecting the MAFS and see if it makes a difference. and/or swap a known good one

Try disconnecting the alternator wires (all of them) and try resetting timing

It's quite possible you bent a connecting rod or 2...