Broke something ... not sure what. Help Plz

I went on a VERY light wheeling trip today in the pines and wound up getting stuck in a hole on the way out, about 50 feet from the road after a good little trip.

Now it seems like my front axle is locked or something. on turns at full lock, it will feel like the tires are pushing really hard, and almost "skipping" or almost like the axle is loading up and skipping on the splines.

there doesnt appear to be anything broken but it feels literally like the whole front end is shifting and the OUTSIDE edge seems to "drop" an inch after the pop on these hard turns. it drives fine around town and around suburb 90* turns and everything, but really hard turns and U turns it will make a "pop" sound and the whole front end will shift...

any ideas?

Do you have lockers????? it felt the same way for me.i had my arb's hooked up backwards and were not unlocking when turned off.wish i could give you more info....

dschramm wrote:

Do you have lockers????? it felt the same way for me.i had my arb's hooked up backwards and were not unlocking when turned off.wish i could give you more info....

nope. no lockers.

I had issues when my track bar came loose and made noise on every hard turn.
Was more of a hard click/clunk than a pop.
I would look at your bushings in your front end (radius arms, track bar).
Look in the wheels for something stuck, like a stick.
Did you use alot of throttle to get unstuck while turning the wheel back and forth?
Could be a CV joint?

Dan

DanC wrote:

I had issues when my track bar came loose and made noise on every hard turn.
Was more of a hard click/clunk than a pop.
I would look at your bushings in your front end (radius arms, track bar).
Look in the wheels for something stuck, like a stick.
Did you use alot of throttle to get unstuck while turning the wheel back and forth?
Could be a CV joint?

Dan

yes on lots of throttle and wheel turning while getting unstuck. im thinking probably a cv joint also.

it reminds me of when i had a silverado and would put it into 4x4 and turn the wheel hard as hell. kind of a skipping thunking sound. but a little more aggressive.

also. while shopping for CV joints, they appear at all local shops to be listed as left and right? anyone know anything about this ? seems to me they'd be the same ...

if they come with inner shafts they are different lengths for right and left.
Otherwise I think the stub ends are the same?

DanC wrote:

if they come with inner shafts they are different lengths for right and left.
Otherwise I think the stub ends are the same?

confirmed. stub ends are the same. locals had them listed as left and right because theyre stupid and list EVERYTHING as left and right specific.

I got remanufactured ones bc i'm cheap and untill i can get ashcrofts i dont see it making a huge difference. The stocker lasted 10 years and 110k miles with ZERO problems or service of any kind from what i can tell. They were $75 each plus $80 core. So i'm not sure if i want to replace the stock one on the left (not broken as far as i can tell) or just return the original.

im of the mind that i should just replace both.

My 02 clearly doesn't have CDL. but... it may also be broken upon further inspection.

If this is the case, i plan to source a re-manufactured or junkyard unit and being that an aftermarket CDL Kit is about $400 from Toddco, i may as well just get a complete case from a year that has CDL.

If i recall correctly, the 99-mid01 and 2004 have CDL right?


also. i thought these Tcases were pretty close to indestructible... is my friend (a mechanic) just being paranoid and making me super paranoid? We're going to put the truck on stands tomorrow and see if we can locate the source of the binding.

The drivetrain does NOT bind in 4lo, but it does in 4high... which leads us to believe its probably in the Case somewhere

I think you would have no drive when the center diff breaks.
The same with a broken axle, you normally have no drive without engaging the CDL.

Other thoughts:
Maybe it is a u-joint problem?
Lost the bearings from one cap?
Transfer case output bearing?
Loose wheel?
Radius arm bushings?

DanC wrote:

I think you would have no drive when the center diff breaks.
The same with a broken axle, you normally have no drive without engaging the CDL.

Other thoughts:
Maybe it is a u-joint problem?
Lost the bearings from one cap?
Transfer case output bearing?
Loose wheel?
Radius arm bushings?

U joints, loose hub or bad wheel bearing?

Jake wrote:

DanC wrote:

I think you would have no drive when the center diff breaks.
The same with a broken axle, you normally have no drive without engaging the CDL.

Other thoughts:
Maybe it is a u-joint problem?
Lost the bearings from one cap?
Transfer case output bearing?
Loose wheel?
Radius arm bushings?

U joints, loose hub or bad wheel bearing?

we're putting it up "on the lift" (a lot of jack stands) today look at it more. he thinks there is something broken inside the Tcase.

It only binds in 4hi not 4low on full lock turns in both directions.

I picked up a Tcase off ebay for 250 shipped with a 6month warranty. its out of a 99 so it has CDL which i consider a win.

It is a mystery for sure what is actually causing the problem, but we're going to start tearing it down to figure it out.

i still think theres a high liklihood that the guts of one of the CV joints blew up but we'll find out soon enough. it drives great as long as you dont have to turn lol.

Interesting it only happens in 4hi.. I would cover your basics again just to be sure. a bad tie rod end could cause what your describing. FWIW when I roasted my ujoint this weekend the only time it clunked BAD was turning and backing up. Obviously the hellacious squeaking while driving up the trail gave it away too.

Where do you feel the clunk? If your tcase was toast you would know it. I'd still put that CDL tcase in, it's worth it.

Jake wrote:

Interesting it only happens in 4hi.. I would cover your basics again just to be sure. a bad tie rod end could cause what your describing. FWIW when I roasted my ujoint this weekend the only time it clunked BAD was turning and backing up. Obviously the hellacious squeaking while driving up the trail gave it away too.

Where do you feel the clunk? If your tcase was toast you would know it. I'd still put that CDL tcase in, it's worth it.

for a while i thought bad tie rod also. the ends are all still original and i was bulldozing through some heavy shit. possibly also steering linkage. newb question, but how could i verify this before tearing down the whole drivetrain?

i tried getting under and shaking the shit out of everything, but theres not really any movement anywhere. i can "rotate" the tie rod but nothing side to side... maybe the ends are broken and still hanging on ?

apatrizzi wrote:

Jake wrote:

Interesting it only happens in 4hi.. I would cover your basics again just to be sure. a bad tie rod end could cause what your describing. FWIW when I roasted my ujoint this weekend the only time it clunked BAD was turning and backing up. Obviously the hellacious squeaking while driving up the trail gave it away too.

Where do you feel the clunk? If your tcase was toast you would know it. I'd still put that CDL tcase in, it's worth it.

for a while i thought bad tie rod also. the ends are all still original and i was bulldozing through some heavy shit. possibly also steering linkage. newb question, but how could i verify this before tearing down the whole drivetrain?

i tried getting under and shaking the shit out of everything, but theres not really any movement anywhere. i can "rotate" the tie rod but nothing side to side... maybe the ends are broken and still hanging on ?

Have somebody turn the wheel hard each way while you're watching. Or drive it and follow closely watch and listen. Try to mimic it. Try to shake the pan hard. Also have somebody drive it and put on breaks see if you see play in radius arms. I'd pull drive shafts and clean then off and inspect.

Could also be the front diff. Drain the oil, and see if anything comes out. Same for the TC. If theres metal on the magnets, or the oil is silver, you found your culprit.

Have some one turn the steering wheel back and forth while you watch the steering components.
Try it with the wheels on the ground first to load everything up, then try it with the wheels off the ground to unload everything.
That is how I found the loose track bar on mine.


If you can do it safely try to recreate it while the truck is off the ground on the stands.

Dan

off the ground recreation is going to occur on saturday.


as for the TC and diffs having oil in them. I almost hope it is, because along with the CDL Tcase i just bought, i also just tentatively bought a set of 4.11:1 gears ... im such a dick, i have this truck that is broken in some unknown way, and i continue to throw money at it as if its a worthy charity.

I haven't officially bought the r/p yet, but if the price quoted turns out to be the real deal, they're as good as mine. Anyone know about GBR Gears and their quality ?

Do the TC with CDL first.
Then you can do the rear gears first (easier than the front).
Then you can drive with just rear wheel drive with the CDL locked and front shaft out.
Finish the front at your leisure.

Dan

DanC wrote:

Do the TC with CDL first.
Then you can do the rear gears first (easier than the front).
Then you can drive with just rear wheel drive with the CDL locked and front shaft out.
Finish the front at your leisure.

Dan

a solid action plan. and would probably be fairly fun in the snow.


I'm really hoping the TC or Panhard bar or tie rods are the problem here. or even the axles. at this point i just really want to find the issue and hope its not expensive... if its gears i'll actually be kind of happy also because then it gives me an excuse to overspend on new shit.

apatrizzi wrote:

DanC wrote:

Do the TC with CDL first.
Then you can do the rear gears first (easier than the front).
Then you can drive with just rear wheel drive with the CDL locked and front shaft out.
Finish the front at your leisure.

Dan

a solid action plan. and would probably be fairly fun in the snow.


I'm really hoping the TC or Panhard bar or tie rods are the problem here. or even the axles. at this point i just really want to find the issue and hope its not expensive... if its gears i'll actually be kind of happy also because then it gives me an excuse to overspend on new shit.

If it was gears your have a hole in your diff and your truck wouldn't be going anywhere.. My money is on drive shaft or tie rods but since it's dependent on hi/low I'd say drive line issue. U have original u joints?

Jake wrote:

apatrizzi wrote:

DanC wrote:

Do the TC with CDL first.
Then you can do the rear gears first (easier than the front).
Then you can drive with just rear wheel drive with the CDL locked and front shaft out.
Finish the front at your leisure.

Dan

a solid action plan. and would probably be fairly fun in the snow.


I'm really hoping the TC or Panhard bar or tie rods are the problem here. or even the axles. at this point i just really want to find the issue and hope its not expensive... if its gears i'll actually be kind of happy also because then it gives me an excuse to overspend on new shit.

If it was gears your have a hole in your diff and your truck wouldn't be going anywhere.. My money is on drive shaft or tie rods but since it's dependent on hi/low I'd say drive line issue. U have original u joints?

nope. new front shaft "beefed" up by a local shop. its a pretty stout unit. but we will look at that as well.

the rear is an original rotoflex but appears to be in decent shape... and the noise and motion is clearly coming from the front.

Jake wrote:

If it was gears your have a hole in your diff and your truck wouldn't be going anywhere.. My money is on drive shaft or tie rods but since it's dependent on hi/low I'd say drive line issue. U have original u joints?

Not necissarily. I was missing teeth on 3 spider gears, and chips out of the ring, along with the cross bin cracked in half and truning the casing hole into an oval. Everything held together for the most part, gut had lots of slack, and very noisy.

durt d1ver wrote:

Jake wrote:

If it was gears your have a hole in your diff and your truck wouldn't be going anywhere.. My money is on drive shaft or tie rods but since it's dependent on hi/low I'd say drive line issue. U have original u joints?

Not necissarily. I was missing teeth on 3 spider gears, and chips out of the ring, along with the cross bin cracked in half and truning the casing hole into an oval. Everything held together for the most part, gut had lots of slack, and very noisy.

sounds like that would have been noisy even in a straight line and definitely wouldn't drive great, am I right?

the confusing part of mine is that it only "clunks" on full lock, in 4 hi and its not every revolution of the shaft or tires but only about 60% of the rotations. i guess one way to find it is to take the truck out and beat on it till something explodes. but we'll be putting it on stands tomorrow to examine everything and hopefully find the problem.

still want those 4.11s though, but only if i can have reverse cut front.

apatrizzi wrote:

durt d1ver wrote:

Jake wrote:

If it was gears your have a hole in your diff and your truck wouldn't be going anywhere.. My money is on drive shaft or tie rods but since it's dependent on hi/low I'd say drive line issue. U have original u joints?

Not necissarily. I was missing teeth on 3 spider gears, and chips out of the ring, along with the cross bin cracked in half and truning the casing hole into an oval. Everything held together for the most part, gut had lots of slack, and very noisy.

sounds like that would have been noisy even in a straight line and definitely wouldn't drive great, am I right?

the confusing part of mine is that it only "clunks" on full lock, in 4 hi and its not every revolution of the shaft or tires but only about 60% of the rotations. i guess one way to find it is to take the truck out and beat on it till something explodes. but we'll be putting it on stands tomorrow to examine everything and hopefully find the problem.

still want those 4.11s though, but only if i can have reverse cut front.

Brian - When you spun the wheels manually could you tell it was shot? I remember seeing the pic of that I think. Insane!

"the confusing part of mine is that it only "clunks" on full lock" - Are your tires hitting radius arms? Are you feeling it in the steering wheel? If not it's likely and hopefully a CV.. I dont see how turning would effect your Tcase..